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Posts Tagged Refinery

How a gold broker is payed

Question

I have been reading your suggestion and advise in connection with the dealing of gold business with seller & buyer’s. May I ask you a question that, if a buyer or seller deceive a broker from paying his agreed commission. How the broker can realize the commission from the buyer or seller please advise.

Answer

Brokers do not make money in the gold business unless you work for a company that sells bullion, possibly a refinery, jeweler or manufacturer. Miners do not need / use brokers at all. In fact no one that has gold needs the help of anyone to sell it. Precious metals are actually NOT commodities such as wheat, sugar rice in the fact there there is NEVER an abundant supply that requires a sales force (brokers) to help “sell” precious metals. Precious metals are actually MONEY. They can be fashioned into legal tender. No other class of commodities in their raw form be simply stamped into money.

Not only that, the margins are VERY thin. Gold out of the ground, for example can be sold for -2 to -3% below its actual value. There is no room for a broker to even make any money. The idea that gold sells for some kind of significant discount is where the problem begins. Gold is not perishable, is sold for at or over it’s value, depending upon it’s form i.e. jewelry, never is there an excess or over abundance in a way that would cause there a reason to offer gold at “sale prices”.

Let me ask you something – if you needed to change British Pounds into USD – do you need a broker to help you, or can you locate a place by yourself to trade Pounds for USD? Now the location that facilitates the money exchange does charge a very small fee to facilitate that transaction – and that is exactly how it works when you want to trade Gold for Cash! No one needs and help because there are hundreds of thousands thousands, perhaps millions of places on the face of the earth where you can trade Gold for Cash.

You need to look for an actual commodity to be a broker for. Being a broker is certainly difficult, but being a broker of precious metals is darn near impossible. NO ONE needs your “help”!!

Incoming search terms:

Will we supply gold CIF?

Question

We are   looking for serious Sellers of listed below products with following terms;

  • 50-100kg of Gold  per week with delivery CIF Warsaw-Poland,
  • Copper cathode CIF Hamburg-Germany in the amount of 22MT to 100MT per month
  • Diamonds CIF delivered to Zurich-Switzerland

Please note that we are interested only in CIF offers, without any preliminary payments or prepayment fees. Serious and determined entrepreneurs are welcome to cooperate.

Answer

We do not supply gold to third parties, but if we did it would never be CIF.

Question

Why?

Answer

No one is going to send you gold “CIF”.

CIF is an Incoterm term – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms – referring to sea transportation by ship, which is always secured through a bank instrument, usually a letter of credit, and including the presentation of the official documents (bill of lading, commercial invoice, insurance document plus certification of product and certification of origin) which the buyer has to pay for.

The correct term you for the method you are looking for would be “free assayer/refinery” or “free tax free warehouse” or “free airport” plus “payment after assay”.  NO ONE that mines gold would ever just “CIF” gold anywhere unless the person receiving it was somehow involved in the mining of it… or unless they pre-paid / sponsored the mining operation, or unless you are a well known refinery – and refineries are not hard to find. http://www.lbma.org.uk/good-delivery-list-recent-additions

Real buyers of raw gold arrange meetings with the sellers; check the goods, get the gold into a security warehouse (and possibly check again) and then pay.

Furthermore it takes millions of dollars in equipment to mine millions of dollars in gold and only a publicly traded company has the ability to mine such a volume of gold and a publicly traded company would never sell gold to a third party – they would only sell directly to a refinery … which again are not hard to find – http://www.lbma.org.uk/good-delivery-list-recent-additions

You are wasting your time chasing your tail with such a request. NO One has that much “extra gold”, only well funded publicly traded companies that own millions of dollars in equipment can produce that much gold per month, and finally NO ONE is going to send you gold via the method you THINK you understand.

 

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Trade gold in the bush in Ghana

Question

Hello, am happy to write you this mail, let me be straight to you, yes there are false sellers in Ghana especially the online guys, they are all fake, i have encounter so much with this scammers and i wasn’t able to get a real sellers. I gold buyer comes to Ghana and wanted me to help him buy gold, i brought most of the so claim gold sellers to him but since they got to know that, we are going to PMMC or AA minerals then they don’t want to. Now am looking forward to partner with a good buyer who might be ready to help me go to the bust and make a better offer to them but first of all, we need to put up a company which will be in regard of purchasing and we can smelt it right there and from community to community we can bring all of them under our group and they wont come to the city to  sell because they got a good offer from us. I hope to hear from you so that we talk about this more.

Answer

We have already tried that idea. The problem is the price as well as the distance to Accra or Kumasi to sell the gold. Not only that, but the profit is @ 3% which is hardly worth the effort.

Question

OK thanks for  reply but i want u to know that, u have not buy directly from the bush,you need a whole lot of miners who are will be ready to sell for you and all u need is your gold weighing machine and u can smelt it right there as well but i want to know where you are right now,are you in Ghana?

One thing i want you to you is that the more you buy the more you make the profit because you don’t expect to make profit whiles you only bought 1kg of gold and about the distance,from Tarkwa to Accra is not all that far and moreover you don’t need to go to the bush,that will be done by me and some few people we might employ to help we out,we can make money out of this,i know and with you as a white man and your personality,you can arrange for sales at refinery at AA minerals and we can make a lot of money.

Answer

We were offered the opportunity to participate in a gold buying office in Dunkwa. We looked over the math and figured out the BEST anyone could profit is 3%. 3% of $10,000 USD is $300.00 USD. With the Police road blocks, fuel, and general hassle involved + the risk, it is not a business that is worth our time. It is way too easy to lose your money and or your gold in such endeavors.

The only way to make real money in the gold business in Ghana is to mine it.

We can supply 10 kg gold dore bars weekly CIF

Question

Could you supply gold bars as 10kg every week to my buyer? its grade its 20carats, 94% to 96% , please issue quotation include CIF at the international Air Port of Cambodia. Please send to me COO, POP, SKR, take photograph gold and you stand with gold in your warehouse.

Answer

We do not supply gold to third parties. There are many reason, but the simplest one is that anyone with gold in Ghana can sell it for just a few percent below the world market price – all day every day.

Think about it like this, if there is enough infrastructure in a county to be able to provide POP or SKRs and ship the gold CIF to you or your “buyer”… then it could just as easily be shipped directly to any LBMA refinery on earth thus avoiding two middle men – you and your buyer.

POP and SKR documents are simply broker documents and no bank  from Africa issues such documents. 99.9% of all such documents anyone would show you will be fake. Precious metals, unlike many other commodities,  are not stored in wait of buyers. Precious metals supplies are not available like sugar, wheat, cement, or other commodities because there is NEVER an extra supply of gold “waiting for a buyer”.

No one that has gold needs help selling it, so you will never find a situation where there is a seller that will pay you a commission to find a buyer. Gold is the most liquid substance on earth and gold can be traded for cash in just about every city in the world including Africa.

 

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Will you sell us gold via Cash Against Documents procedure?

Question

Good day,

Hope that you are doing will, kindly please inform if you have experienced export on CAD payment ( Cash Against Documents) that includes the assay report of the buyer’s refinery, if yes then we are ready to cooperate and purchase all of your production to our client in USA whom is a Joint Venture company to a Prime bank.

Awaiting your kind reply.

Answer

The gold trading method you request is illustrated quite well here >> Cash Against Documents Procedure

Firstly let me say that gold is cash and is only traded for fiat currency when absolutely necessary. Having said that, what you are asking is to treat gold as if it was a common commodity such as sugar, cement, fuel oil, etc. – and it is not.

Please follow the link and look under the “cons” section there are 5 cons, but we can just look at the first one. 1) Banks don’t verify the transaction nor the documents and they do not guarantee any payment will be made by the buyer.

You are asking us to send a tangible asset for the promise of payment by you not a bank. Now who would take that risk?  – Not us or anyone we know.

 

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Procedures you work with regarding selling gold

Question

Hope all is great with you .
I would like to know what type of procedures you work with regarding selling AU. I’m direct to a refinery mandate that is looking for product .
Thank you

Answer

Thank you for your inquiry. No offense, but we do not sell gold to third parties through brokers. Thankfully we don’t have to as there are dozens of buyers in Ghana with convenient gold buying office locations in every city where gold is found.

If we desired to send gold to a refinery, we can do so at any time – and so can anyone else that has gold / mines gold. We simply do not because there is no need. Cash buyers with office locations are everywhere in Ghana!

Would you or anyone ship gold to us based upon our BG

Question

Under what condition, if we get to that point, would you or anyone ship gold to based upon our BG?
What are your terms and conditions?

Answer

We do not sell gold to third parties nor accept instruments as viable trade mechanisms…. and neither does anyone else for that matter.

We definitely don’t know everything, but from our experience and from our research no one ships gold to third parties based upon instruments such as Bank Guarantees (BG). African banks do not accept them, so that is as far as our personal experience goes.

From a practical standpoint, there are dozens of accredited gold refineries all over the world. If we didn’t have one near us, we would be looking to ship directly to a refinery and get top dollar. No one needs / uses third parties when it comes to gold. Why?

Gold is money and one only trades gold for currency when they need cash to further their mining efforts. The daily world value of gold is no secret, and even the smallest boy in the most distant village knows the world market price of gold today. Just like when someone trades one currency for another there is always a small fee associated with the transaction, not some kind of disproportionate discount.

Everyone somehow imagines that distant countries don’t have access to the world market and the fact is if someone can ship gold to you, they can ship it anywhere on earth…. so why ship it to you?

Will you supply Gold on a CIF basis, MT799 to our refinery?

Question

I’m representing buyers in Germany, Czech and Dubai, and I am looking for additional sources who can supply. As is see you have your options would this be possible with you? CIF basis, MT799 to refinery etc etc.

Answer

We get this question all the time and the answer is a simple no. No one will ever ship you gold CIF unless you have invested in the mining operation…. and I mean no one. Why?

CIF stands for Cost, Insurance and Freight. Basically you are asking someone with gold (a real tangible product) to send you gold, pay the shipping fee and the insurance based upon an MT799 which is nothing more than a Proof of Funds. That is like me saying, let me send you my bank statement, and you send me thousands, hundreds, or millions of dollars worth of gold, and we promise to pay you! If the gold was yours, would you do that?

The fact is that anyone that has gold can CIF it to any refinery on earth, so why would they CIF it to you / your refinery? They won’t.

Incoming search terms:

Clients that are seeking gold CIF to their refineries.

Question

I hope this message finds you well.  I would like to advise you of my current position in gold , mining, operations as such (iron ore)

I am affiliated with some very influential people in the business who have their own concessions in Africa – Ghana, Mali , Sierra Leone.

They take their gold and its presold to refineries, banks in Europe and in Dubai for spot or sometimes 2% over spot on all finished product.

I do have clients that are seeking gold CIF to their refineries.  I know this is asking a lot because gold typically does not have a discount. Can you be so kind as to advise me if you have the ability to send to one of my buyers in Dallas TX at approx 45-46 per kg?

If so, any quantity will do to build a relationship.

We are establishing our own facility in Utah to process iron ore bodies ~ very time consuming, equipment, engineering, logistics all have to be perfected but it should be fully operational by end of April

I look forward to your reply.

Answer

We have a refinery account with Dillon Gage in Texas. If I was going to CIF gold, I would simply CIF it to my account and not anyone else’s.

… and you are right, the entire gold production process at its core runs off of pre-buy or sponsorship investments. Anyone that is fronting all the money for their operations (investors or self financed) will demand top dollar for their goods… and that means there are no discounts available.

Gold is money … and money is ONLY discounted when you have to exchange it for other money. Likewise gold is only discounted when traded for cash.. but in either transaction the tolerable discount is small – always.